Mr. Sullivan, my 12th grade English teacher, made us dress up in Burger King crowns and sword fight with paper towel tubes to make sense of Shakespeare's Hamlet. Here at the American School in Guadalajara we are going to use the internet instead. In the posts below, follow us as we seek to understand why this really is the greatest play in the English language.
Sunday, April 19, 2009
II, 1
Have you ever had a good friend change dramatically? What was it like?Could you remain friends with them?
So, do you think Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet? Why or why not?
I had a good friend change dramatically over the summer. After I came back from vacations, I felt uncomfortable around that person and I couldn't really remain friends with that one.
I don't think Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet because she is only going to end up hurting herself. Like the brother said, Hamlet by birth is higher in rank and won't respect her (especially in those days when women weren't treated well). He just wants to use her...that's what I think.
I have had various friends change dramatically, much to my surprise when I saw them again. Oftentimes the first thing I would try to do is slightly modify my own behavior to fit in with this "new" friend of mine, and, although it did work on certain occasions, it also failed many, many times, leading to the loss of various friends.
I also do not think Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet because, as both Laertes and Polonius said, Hamlet is of a higher rank and may have other thoughts in his mind than his relationship with Ophelia. Additionally, I don't think I would be able to (and here I am taking more of a "If I were Hamlet"... position) maintain a relationship with a woman as selfish as Ophelia, who actually thinks Hamlet's madness stems only from his love for her and may not have to do with, oh I don't know, the fact that his father is dead and his mother remarried from one month to the next!
I have had friends change dramatically. New companies, and new boyfriends make people change but if it is a true friendship i don´t see why you can't still be friends. I did remain friends with them and still are.
I also think that Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet. She loves him, and is depressed by the idea of him being mad because of her intense love. She will be able to maintain her relationship cause she will know that Hamlet is faking, if she knows him, she will know.
maria jose celis Yes, I have had people change dramatically. Some change, as Karla said, because of new girlfriends/boyfriends and others simply changed. I think you can still be friends with them but sometimes it is really hard and even if you try, you just can't.
I think Ophelia can mantain a relationship with Hamlet because she is completely in love with him. Also, her father seeing both, Hamlet gone crazy and Ophelia depressed, will now allow them to be together.
People change when they have different experiences, meet new people, go to different places. I have had friends change dramatically, I think that even I have. It was possible to remain friends with these people because its people you love and you cant just leave them, so I just got used to their new attitudes, and then I found out that beneath their new moods and fashions, they were still there. I believe that if Ophelia really loves Hamlet and is willing to support him, they can still be together. However, if Hamlet does not open himself and talk to her about what is going on, its just not gonna happen- personal experience. They will need to work very hard on their relationship.
I had a close friend change and we ended our relationship. We are still nice to each other but I just cant be around her for some reason. I have had many friends change and we keep being close friends because I love them no matter what. However, in this case, her changes began affecting me and hurting me, therefore, I decided to stay away from her. I believe that if Ophelia really loves Hamlewt she can mantain their relationship and help him out, but if Hamlet refuses to put effort into the relationship, then it will not work.
I did have a friend change, he would say things like get me some water or im not your friend anymore and other threats similar to that. He may have always been like this and I just never really noticed but either way I got sick of it and we are not really friends anymore.
I think Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet but really depends on Hamlet if he informs her or not of this crazy act he is putting on.
I think life is all about change like learning from your mistakes or discovery new hobbies or talents, etc. Though I also believe that some people confuse the fact that changing can negative and therefore, they decide to deny such changes. For example, not long ago, I fought with one of my closest friends. I don't know how we did it but, we didn't talk to each other for at least 2 months. We used to blame our fights on our "personality differences" but, such differences are no excuse for not putting our personalities aside, in order to change and grow into better people together.
Truthfully, I think Hamlet's madness is not over just yet which makes everything unpredictable. But, considering that Shakespear, the ULTIMATE creator of star-crossed lovers, wrote this, I am guessing these two aren't going to get their perfect "happily-ever after".
Have I ever had a friend change dramatically? Hm.. To be honest, I don't actually know. It would seem like everyone else has and I'm sure Mr. Gerber is thinking "yes or no question Lina. 'I don't know' isn't an option here".. but its a weird situation. I have friends whom I've known for a very long time. Over the course of knowing them, of course they've changed. Sometimes, they've changed for the worse and we lose touch. Othertimes its a change for the better. The thing is, its never been a sudden change- changes that really last are usually gradual. (In my opinion, the really sudden, dramatic changes are not real changes. They're more like phases and people grow out of them soon enough). I think that's normal, I call it "growing up." Because they're gradual, these changes are a hard to really notice on a day-to-day basis (Sort of like getting taller). Eventually, however, they do build up.. However, I've never known someone to change the core of their personality. It might seem like they have, but I'd be willing to bet that this "change" is the result of getting to know someone better. In the begining of any interpersonal realationship, you don't really see someone's true personality. You take whatever knowledge you do have about this person and "create" them in your mind, if that makes sense. As time goes on, they stray further and further from your initial interpretation and you assume "he's changed" but in reality, you're just seeing what's been there all along.
As for Hamlet and Ophelia, I don't think they'll mantain their realationship long term. Something about Ophelia's personality strikes me as passive and foolish. She just accepts whatever's happening and takes the easiest explanation, without really thinking about it. Hamlet is the opposite- he is quite proactive and analytical. I don't think the characters see these qualities in eachother yet- all their time together seems more devoted to 'playing chess' or trivial topics of conversation. Plus, I'm sure that when the truth is revealed, Ophelia will be feeling some serious resentment.
Indeed I have had friends change dramatically. I had a really close relationship with this girl and se just turned on me and my other friends, and became someone unreliable and shallow. Naturally that friendship ended.
On the otherhand I have had friends change dramatically but for good. One of my best friends a while ago had a "phase". it was quite a scary phase to be honest, she wasnt herself and was doing things i never thought suh a nice girl was capable of (she wasnt that bad, it just seemed like the end of the world for me back then) but suddenly she realized that her actions werent going anywhere and turned into the right path again, she is now wonderful, smart, loveable and everything is in the past.
I do not think Ophelia's and Hamlet's relationship is a matter of whether they can be together or not, it is a matter of if the should. I do not think Ophelia should continue to have a relationship with hamlet because every girl deserves a man that she can trust and that gives her certainty and safety, a man like hamlet is far from being able to do this. With men like hamlet women can never know what to expect and thos kinds of relationships shouldnt be encouraged.
Through his madness whether its fake or not hamlet proved his lack of ablitity to keep a stable relationship and he through the shrot part of the story that we have known him, he seems to be the kind of person who doesnt think other people are people butonly means to an end.
people change a lot.. so yes I have had a friend change dramatically and I have been able to keep a relationship but not as the one before that person changed. If the change is very dramatic I don't think a relationship could still happen. I think Ophelia can keep a relationship with Hamlet but only if she really wants to. If she is deeply in love with him she may be able to accept his madness and his drastic changes. If she doesn't really love him I don't think it is going to work. If they are supposed to be together they will be. I think Ophelia is the one that has the power to choose. If she wants to they can.
Just like Lina said (love your post, by the way :D), I have never really had to deal with a very dramatic change in any of my friends.
Yes, I have had friends come back from studying abroad and it takes a minute to get used to their new facets. However, I'm happy to make this slight effort because I can sense they are still the same people. Metaphorically, I feel as if I had been reading their diary for years and all of a sudden I had just skipped 50 pages. Thus, at first, I can't understand what they are saying. But once I take the time to read through those 50 pages, I'm easily back on track.
However, the most "dramatic" change I have seen in a friend hasn't really been a change at all. Once again, as Lina explained, it was more like me getting to know pieces of their personality that I hadn't expected. Like, for example, when you first see a friend taking drugs and you freak out, but then they tell you they have been doing it for a long time. wups! right? But, regardless, they are still my friends.
Now, back to Hamlet. I think Ophelia's case is quite different. As I mentioned in class; if one of my friends went crazy, I would find a way to deal with it. But if I later on learned that he/she was only pretending to be crazy for whatever reason, and in the process making my life miserable, then the friendship would be over. Similarly, I think Ophelia's feelings for Hamlet will persist despite his "kookiness" (technical term there), but if she ever realizes he was only pretending to be crazy, regardless of the trouble it could cause her, I'm not sure their relationship would continue.
Changing personalities or behaviors is a process that all of us undergo at a certain point in our loives.Friends and people are two of the most influential factors that affect changing in people. A couple of my best friends during mkiddle school changed dramatically and our relationship was affected by those changes but later on we were able to recuperate our friendship. As for Hamlet and Ophelia I agree with Lina and I am noty sure of their compatibility. I dont think that they have a good chance of succeding together.
unfortunately, i rlly goo dfriend of mine last year, my best friend to be precise, dramatically changed. We had an AMAZING relationship, everythign was super cool between us and suddenly he just wasnt the same anymore. We did not stgay friends for a while then I saw him....in an inconvinient state.. and it was just like before, for one night i had my friend ack.. after that we talked, sorted stuff out but never became friend like we used to.
i think ophelia, unlike me, can sucesfuly maintain a relationship with hamlet because , unlike my friend, hamlet is faking it and thus can go back to how things were before.
In a way, I am glad to be one of the last, if not the last, to answer this question. Speaking of friends who change, I think I am responsible for ditching every single one of my best friends. I am a person of change. I need a dramatic haircut or a piercing to be happy with myself. It is impressing how fast I get tired of my friends, of my boyfriends, of myself. Sometimes, in order to improve myself, I've been selfish enough to turn my back to a friend. Because she wasn't that popular, because she was too attached to me, because I had spent a lot of time with her and I needed a change. Of couse, some of these friends have been able to leave aside my immature attitude, and I am glad to say that I've been able to continue a good relationship with most of them. However, there has also been those who are simply unnameable up to today. But I guess, everything happens for a reason, and this is how it must be.
I believe Ophelia and Hamlet can mantain a good relationship. Ophelia loves him and Hamlet seems to love her back. I know that Ophelia isn't trying to backstab Hamlet and get him in trouble, but Ophelia feels bound to do it because of the love and respect she has for her father. I believe that if it is meant to be, they will be happy. If they dont succeed as a couple, then again, everything has a reason behind it. It is all about fate. Giselle
I don´t think I have had friends changed dramatically in a short time but surely many of my friends have changed. Last year I went to Victoria, Canada, a year after I had returned form that same city, to see my friends. Some had changed so much I barely recognized them anymore, but I still am good friends with the ones that continue hearing from.
I think that Ophelia will manage to stay a friend to Hamlet as his "change" is only acting.
Yes i have had a friend change dramatically over a short period of time. It was last year and my best friend and i were really close. However, after some time, i realized that i was no longer going to me manipulated by her and stop calling her to go out. She reacted coldly and started snapping at me and being rude, that is when i decided we were better apart and we went our seperate ways.
I believe that Ophelia cannot and will not be able to handle Hamlet's dramatic change mainly because she is a fagile woman. She listens to her heart and is very naive. She believes she is in love, and when one experiences that feeling, they are capable of everyone and exposed to all kinds of situations. I do not think Ophelia can handle hamlets bi-polarness and something bad may happen in their relationship.
i think all of us have had friends that have changed dramatically. After all, we are all growing up and getting comfortable in our own skin. A couple of times I have been able to remain friends with them, for the person i have become fits with who they have become. However, some times, the changes make it impossible for u to remain friens with that person.
I think that whether Ophelia and Hamlet stay together depends on how strong Ophelia proves to be. If she continues to be so easily manipulate by her father, then no, they're doomed. But if she finds the strength she needs, then sure. If their love is real.
Yes a few years ago a good friend changed his personality and it was really wierd I did remain friends with him though.
ReplyDeleteI don't think so because Ophelia does not, and would not beleive the true source of Hamlet's madness.
I had a good friend change dramatically over the summer. After I came back from vacations, I felt uncomfortable around that person and I couldn't really remain friends with that one.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet because she is only going to end up hurting herself. Like the brother said, Hamlet by birth is higher in rank and won't respect her (especially in those days when women weren't treated well). He just wants to use her...that's what I think.
Sun Young
I have had various friends change dramatically, much to my surprise when I saw them again. Oftentimes the first thing I would try to do is slightly modify my own behavior to fit in with this "new" friend of mine, and, although it did work on certain occasions, it also failed many, many times, leading to the loss of various friends.
ReplyDeleteI also do not think Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet because, as both Laertes and Polonius said, Hamlet is of a higher rank and may have other thoughts in his mind than his relationship with Ophelia. Additionally, I don't think I would be able to (and here I am taking more of a "If I were Hamlet"... position) maintain a relationship with a woman as selfish as Ophelia, who actually thinks Hamlet's madness stems only from his love for her and may not have to do with, oh I don't know, the fact that his father is dead and his mother remarried from one month to the next!
Carlos Sisniega
I have had friends change dramatically. New companies, and new boyfriends make people change but if it is a true friendship i don´t see why you can't still be friends. I did remain friends with them and still are.
ReplyDeleteI also think that Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet. She loves him, and is depressed by the idea of him being mad because of her intense love. She will be able to maintain her relationship cause she will know that Hamlet is faking, if she knows him, she will know.
KARLA JACINTO(:
maria jose celis
ReplyDeleteYes, I have had people change dramatically. Some change, as Karla said, because of new girlfriends/boyfriends and others simply changed. I think you can still be friends with them but sometimes it is really hard and even if you try, you just can't.
I think Ophelia can mantain a relationship with Hamlet because she is completely in love with him. Also, her father seeing both, Hamlet gone crazy and Ophelia depressed, will now allow them to be together.
People change when they have different experiences, meet new people, go to different places. I have had friends change dramatically, I think that even I have. It was possible to remain friends with these people because its people you love and you cant just leave them, so I just got used to their new attitudes, and then I found out that beneath their new moods and fashions, they were still there.
ReplyDeleteI believe that if Ophelia really loves Hamlet and is willing to support him, they can still be together. However, if Hamlet does not open himself and talk to her about what is going on, its just not gonna happen- personal experience.
They will need to work very hard on their relationship.
Maria Astrid Q (:
I had a close friend change and we ended our relationship. We are still nice to each other but I just cant be around her for some reason. I have had many friends change and we keep being close friends because I love them no matter what. However, in this case, her changes began affecting me and hurting me, therefore, I decided to stay away from her. I believe that if Ophelia really loves Hamlewt she can mantain their relationship and help him out, but if Hamlet refuses to put effort into the relationship, then it will not work.
ReplyDeleteBYE
MAria Jose Fernandez
I did have a friend change, he would say things like get me some water or im not your friend anymore and other threats similar to that. He may have always been like this and I just never really noticed but either way I got sick of it and we are not really friends anymore.
ReplyDeleteI think Ophelia can maintain her relationship with Hamlet but really depends on Hamlet if he informs her or not of this crazy act he is putting on.
Evan Baker
I think life is all about change like learning from your mistakes or discovery new hobbies or talents, etc. Though I also believe that some people confuse the fact that changing can negative and therefore, they decide to deny such changes. For example, not long ago, I fought with one of my closest friends. I don't know how we did it but, we didn't talk to each other for at least 2 months. We used to blame our fights on our "personality differences" but, such differences are no excuse for not putting our personalities aside, in order to change and grow into better people together.
ReplyDeleteTruthfully, I think Hamlet's madness is not over just yet which makes everything unpredictable. But, considering that Shakespear, the ULTIMATE creator of star-crossed lovers, wrote this, I am guessing these two aren't going to get their perfect "happily-ever after".
Carolina Haddad
Have I ever had a friend change dramatically? Hm.. To be honest, I don't actually know. It would seem like everyone else has and I'm sure Mr. Gerber is thinking "yes or no question Lina. 'I don't know' isn't an option here".. but its a weird situation.
ReplyDeleteI have friends whom I've known for a very long time. Over the course of knowing them, of course they've changed. Sometimes, they've changed for the worse and we lose touch. Othertimes its a change for the better. The thing is, its never been a sudden change- changes that really last are usually gradual. (In my opinion, the really sudden, dramatic changes are not real changes. They're more like phases and people grow out of them soon enough). I think that's normal, I call it "growing up." Because they're gradual, these changes are a hard to really notice on a day-to-day basis (Sort of like getting taller). Eventually, however, they do build up.. However, I've never known someone to change the core of their personality. It might seem like they have, but I'd be willing to bet that this "change" is the result of getting to know someone better. In the begining of any interpersonal realationship, you don't really see someone's true personality. You take whatever knowledge you do have about this person and "create" them in your mind, if that makes sense. As time goes on, they stray further and further from your initial interpretation and you assume "he's changed" but in reality, you're just seeing what's been there all along.
As for Hamlet and Ophelia, I don't think they'll mantain their realationship long term. Something about Ophelia's personality strikes me as passive and foolish. She just accepts whatever's happening and takes the easiest explanation, without really thinking about it. Hamlet is the opposite- he is quite proactive and analytical.
I don't think the characters see these qualities in eachother yet- all their time together seems more devoted to 'playing chess' or trivial topics of conversation.
Plus, I'm sure that when the truth is revealed, Ophelia will be feeling some serious resentment.
-Lina
Indeed I have had friends change dramatically. I had a really close relationship with this girl and se just turned on me and my other friends, and became someone unreliable and shallow. Naturally that friendship ended.
ReplyDeleteOn the otherhand I have had friends change dramatically but for good. One of my best friends a while ago had a "phase". it was quite a scary phase to be honest, she wasnt herself and was doing things i never thought suh a nice girl was capable of (she wasnt that bad, it just seemed like the end of the world for me back then) but suddenly she realized that her actions werent going anywhere and turned into the right path again, she is now wonderful, smart, loveable and everything is in the past.
I do not think Ophelia's and Hamlet's relationship is a matter of whether they can be together or not, it is a matter of if the should. I do not think Ophelia should continue to have a relationship with hamlet because every girl deserves a man that she can trust and that gives her certainty and safety, a man like hamlet is far from being able to do this. With men like hamlet women can never know what to expect and thos kinds of relationships shouldnt be encouraged.
Oh i forgot an important arguement.
ReplyDeleteThrough his madness whether its fake or not hamlet proved his lack of ablitity to keep a stable relationship and he through the shrot part of the story that we have known him, he seems to be the kind of person who doesnt think other people are people butonly means to an end.
So Ophelia, u can do better honey.
people change a lot.. so yes I have had a friend change dramatically and I have been able to keep a relationship but not as the one before that person changed. If the change is very dramatic I don't think a relationship could still happen.
ReplyDeleteI think Ophelia can keep a relationship with Hamlet but only if she really wants to. If she is deeply in love with him she may be able to accept his madness and his drastic changes. If she doesn't really love him I don't think it is going to work.
If they are supposed to be together they will be. I think Ophelia is the one that has the power to choose. If she wants to they can.
Macarena
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJust like Lina said (love your post, by the way :D), I have never really had to deal with a very dramatic change in any of my friends.
ReplyDeleteYes, I have had friends come back from studying abroad and it takes a minute to get used to their new facets. However, I'm happy to make this slight effort because I can sense they are still the same people. Metaphorically, I feel as if I had been reading their diary for years and all of a sudden I had just skipped 50 pages. Thus, at first, I can't understand what they are saying. But once I take the time to read through those 50 pages, I'm easily back on track.
However, the most "dramatic" change I have seen in a friend hasn't really been a change at all. Once again, as Lina explained, it was more like me getting to know pieces of their personality that I hadn't expected. Like, for example, when you first see a friend taking drugs and you freak out, but then they tell you they have been doing it for a long time.
wups! right? But, regardless, they are still my friends.
Now, back to Hamlet. I think Ophelia's case is quite different. As I mentioned in class; if one of my friends went crazy, I would find a way to deal with it. But if I later on learned that he/she was only pretending to be crazy for whatever reason, and in the process making my life miserable, then the friendship would be over. Similarly, I think Ophelia's feelings for Hamlet will persist despite his "kookiness" (technical term there), but if she ever realizes he was only pretending to be crazy, regardless of the trouble it could cause her, I'm not sure their relationship would continue.
Changing personalities or behaviors is a process that all of us undergo at a certain point in our loives.Friends and people are two of the most influential factors that affect changing in people. A couple of my best friends during mkiddle school changed dramatically and our relationship was affected by those changes but later on we were able to recuperate our friendship.
ReplyDeleteAs for Hamlet and Ophelia I agree with Lina and I am noty sure of their compatibility. I dont think that they have a good chance of succeding together.
Publio
unfortunately, i rlly goo dfriend of mine last year, my best friend to be precise, dramatically changed. We had an AMAZING relationship, everythign was super cool between us and suddenly he just wasnt the same anymore. We did not stgay friends for a while then I saw him....in an inconvinient state.. and it was just like before, for one night i had my friend ack.. after that we talked, sorted stuff out but never became friend like we used to.
ReplyDeletei think ophelia, unlike me, can sucesfuly maintain a relationship with hamlet because , unlike my friend, hamlet is faking it and thus can go back to how things were before.
In a way, I am glad to be one of the last, if not the last, to answer this question. Speaking of friends who change, I think I am responsible for ditching every single one of my best friends. I am a person of change. I need a dramatic haircut or a piercing to be happy with myself. It is impressing how fast I get tired of my friends, of my boyfriends, of myself. Sometimes, in order to improve myself, I've been selfish enough to turn my back to a friend. Because she wasn't that popular, because she was too attached to me, because I had spent a lot of time with her and I needed a change. Of couse, some of these friends have been able to leave aside my immature attitude, and I am glad to say that I've been able to continue a good relationship with most of them. However, there has also been those who are simply unnameable up to today. But I guess, everything happens for a reason, and this is how it must be.
ReplyDeleteI believe Ophelia and Hamlet can mantain a good relationship. Ophelia loves him and Hamlet seems to love her back. I know that Ophelia isn't trying to backstab Hamlet and get him in trouble, but Ophelia feels bound to do it because of the love and respect she has for her father. I believe that if it is meant to be, they will be happy. If they dont succeed as a couple, then again, everything has a reason behind it. It is all about fate.
Giselle
I don´t think I have had friends changed dramatically in a short time but surely many of my friends have changed. Last year I went to Victoria, Canada, a year after I had returned form that same city, to see my friends. Some had changed so much I barely recognized them anymore, but I still am good friends with the ones that continue hearing from.
ReplyDeleteI think that Ophelia will manage to stay a friend to Hamlet as his "change" is only acting.
Aurora van Zoelen
Yes i have had a friend change dramatically over a short period of time. It was last year and my best friend and i were really close. However, after some time, i realized that i was no longer going to me manipulated by her and stop calling her to go out. She reacted coldly and started snapping at me and being rude, that is when i decided we were better apart and we went our seperate ways.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Ophelia cannot and will not be able to handle Hamlet's dramatic change mainly because she is a fagile woman. She listens to her heart and is very naive. She believes she is in love, and when one experiences that feeling, they are capable of everyone and exposed to all kinds of situations. I do not think Ophelia can handle hamlets bi-polarness and something bad may happen in their relationship.
nicole lukac (no school tomorrow) :D
Closed.\
ReplyDeleteMr. Paul
i think all of us have had friends that have changed dramatically. After all, we are all growing up and getting comfortable in our own skin. A couple of times I have been able to remain friends with them, for the person i have become fits with who they have become. However, some times, the changes make it impossible for u to remain friens with that person.
ReplyDeleteI think that whether Ophelia and Hamlet stay together depends on how strong Ophelia proves to be. If she continues to be so easily manipulate by her father, then no, they're doomed. But if she finds the strength she needs, then sure. If their love is real.
Pilar Arechiga