Mr. Sullivan, my 12th grade English teacher, made us dress up in Burger King crowns and sword fight with paper towel tubes to make sense of Shakespeare's Hamlet. Here at the American School in Guadalajara we are going to use the internet instead. In the posts below, follow us as we seek to understand why this really is the greatest play in the English language.
Sunday, April 19, 2009
IV, 5
Before the 20th Century, mental illness was not seen as a treatable medical condition, as it is today, but as a permanent problem (or worse, possession by the devil). What do you think of Ophelia's "treatment"?
Ophelia's treatment of just being kept away from everyone isn't going to work and probably only worsen her condition. She needs a much more serene environment and to be with someone close to her that she feels very comfortable with.
maria jose celis Being held in a room and tied is not the smartest way to treat Ophelia. If they had talked to her and tried to calm her down after Polonius death, probably she wouldn't have end up so messed up. As Evan mentioned, she should be taken to peaceful areas and also be talked to with kindness in hopes of bringing her back to herself.
i think it was really stupd.. they didnt even try to figure out if it was a demon inside her or somehting, they ust put her in a room with not even the slightest chance of improvement... instead it gives room for her "maddness" to groww even moore
Their treatment of Ophelia wasn't fair at all, they should have drilled holes in her head instead.
I think that Ophelia's treatment was pretty good for the time. Remember that there was no science at the time and that she was sick with something you cannot see or quantify in any way. I think they did the best they could. They let her stay in the palace instead of sending her to an asylum with horrible conditions. They didn't try to beat the insanity out of her. She was treated very carefully: "Sweet Ophelia" as if they were trying really hard not to upset her more.
Ophelia even got to keep her freedom for the most part, as was demonstrated by her death. If she drowned in a river, this means she was allowed to go outside and play without parental supervision, which is about as free as you can get.
I believe that part of Ophelia's madness has been caused by the actual way in which life has treated her. Her dad's attitude, her problem's with Hamlet, her dad's death, the fact that her brother went to live to France, etc....In addition to this, as I commented in class, I believe that the actual treatment for insane people can drive you even crazier than what you already are. For example, if a sane person goes into a mental institution hewill probabbly end up with sserious problems to his personality and chatacter. This I believe has affected Ophelia too. For me personally, the best way to solve problems or feel better is talking to other people, however life has isolated Ophelia in every possible aspect and this is what has driven her over the top....
For that time, it was the best treatment. They could've done worse such as making her into a nun, memorize the bible, start a dream journal, somehow prove her love towards God and show that she isn't posessed by donatin to the church... When someone goes insane, it is better to be alone. plus as Lina said, she drowned in the river...she was allowed to go out and play with the little bunnies.
Ophelia's treatment was, at the time, the best they could do I think, its the best they could do when someone went crazy. However I think that what would've worked out for her better was to have someone talk to her, someone she could talk straight to and say exactly how she felt without having to worry about etiquette. I think that by isolating her, they just gave her time to think about everything that happened, and that drove her insane because she, being so mentally fragile-always protected and told what to do without a strong personality, wasn't strong enough to cope. If she were alive today and everything had happened now, she wouldve been sent straight to a psychologist, maybe even a psychiatrists, but I doubt she would have been isolated.
As Mr gerber said, im so glad that i live in this century. they're treating her like an animal!!!! no one is even trying to help her, not really. All they did was throw her into a room with padded walls and hold her hands so she wouldnt hurt herself. Why would they clean her the way they did!!!! that's no way to make anyone take a shower! i wouldnt even bathe my dog the way the bathed ophelia. They probably just think she's a lost cause. It's exactly because of that, that she ended up dying. If anyone, anyone had taken her seriously and had talked to her before she lost it, the story would have been different.
I think the way Ophelia is treated is completely unacceptable; instead of trying to help her, they are only making her mental health even more unstable. By treating her like an inferior human, ignoring everything she says, and on top of that, actually hurting her physically, they are only making her condition worse. The confusement and anger she was feeling before could have been managed, but because of the way she was treated, her feelings turned into real madness.
I´m definitely glad that nowadays it is expected for everyone to go through "rough patches". So other people are willing to listen to you and help you get through it.
Opheelia´s treatment was necessary. She had to be treated somehow. Being isolation was maybe not the smartest way to do it but people wanted to help her, people -like Astrid said- did what was common in their century, like it is common for us to treat patients with medicines, in the future, maybe they will realized it was the worse thing to do because the medicines were only temporarily, but we still don't know. So the treatment was supposed to be the "best of best" we are talking about the ROYAL family.
Altthough i agree that Ophelia's treatment was unecessary, it is partially apropiate because of the time in which the play is taking place. The seclusion and putting her in the straight jacket seems reasonable, becasue people did not know how to respond. However, the characters, and especialliy Gertude and the King could have treated her differently, and not so much as if she was redarted. The tone in which they spoke to Ophelia, could have made her even more mad....which in the end led to her death.
I agree with nicole that ophelias treatment was unnecesary I also think that because of the way Ophelias life has been, it is too late for any type of treatment. She lost her mother, her father now and she was her fathers popet, so I think there is not much that can be done to help her. She had suffered enough so probably her death/ suicide was the best option.
The last thing Ophelia needs is to be treated like an animal. I think she needs someone to talk to, someone that tries to reason with her, and that is there to support her. The scene with the cold water is done with a lot of disrespect and agression. Although cold water might be a good relaxation treatment, she could get baths in iced water instead. She is seen as an abnormal human, and by isolating her, she is being misunderstood. Giselle
Ophelia is treated like a leper. They want to seal her up so that she can't spread her madness around the palace. This only makes things worse. It's really unnecessary and unhealthy for them to do that to her. They aren't even attempting to help her with her problem, they just seal her off in a secluded padded room Will
Ophelia's treatment is terrible! Ofcourse, that was what was thought was the best at that time: to isolate someone with issues. However today we know that that is the worst thing you can do. They will just get crazier and crazier. They dont even try to helo her or speak congruently to her. They need to trat her like a normal person in order for her to get better.
Sorry, that last comment was me! Excuse the technical failures, my computer seems to have a mind of its own these days.
Anyway, honestly, I think the majority of the character's behavior are a bit exagerrated especially Ophelia's. I mean i just dont see the transition between all of this madness of hers. I get that her father died but, going that crazy is so shocking that I didn't even consider it a possibility. Seriously, if any person had an extremely mournful reaction when a loved one died then the majority of us, if not all of us, would be locked up and accused of having "mental issues", just like Ophelia! But, anyway, willing suspension of disbelief right? Hahaha, I truly hope so.
Adding to that, of course I think Ophelia's treatment is completely inhuman but what is most shocking, is how fast her brother gave up on her, how he announced so quickly that her "madness" was permanent. That is just heartbreaking to me.
Obviously the treatment given to Ophelia is crazier than she is but again it is a result of the time and place were they lived. I am beggining to think that back in those days people didn't have hearts...just a tought....
If someone would have hugged and talked to Ophelia instead of making her wear a restraining jacket and lock her up I think she would have recovered to be somewhat normal, because no one is ever completely sane. But now thanks to the treatment she is dead.
About the demon thing, that is just plain stupid even back then... i feel sorry for humanity sometimes in cases like this...
Ophelia goes mad over the death of her father and has to be held in a cell in the palace.
ReplyDeleteAlex Verlage
Ophelia's treatment of just being kept away from everyone isn't going to work and probably only worsen her condition. She needs a much more serene environment and to be with someone close to her that she feels very comfortable with.
ReplyDelete-Evan Baker
maria jose celis
ReplyDeleteBeing held in a room and tied is not the smartest way to treat Ophelia. If they had talked to her and tried to calm her down after Polonius death, probably she wouldn't have end up so messed up. As Evan mentioned, she should be taken to peaceful areas and also be talked to with kindness in hopes of bringing her back to herself.
i think it was really stupd.. they didnt even try to figure out if it was a demon inside her or somehting, they ust put her in a room with not even the slightest chance of improvement... instead it gives room for her "maddness" to groww even moore
ReplyDeleteTheir treatment of Ophelia wasn't fair at all, they should have drilled holes in her head instead.
ReplyDeleteI think that Ophelia's treatment was pretty good for the time. Remember that there was no science at the time and that she was sick with something you cannot see or quantify in any way. I think they did the best they could.
They let her stay in the palace instead of sending her to an asylum with horrible conditions. They didn't try to beat the insanity out of her. She was treated very carefully: "Sweet Ophelia" as if they were trying really hard not to upset her more.
Ophelia even got to keep her freedom for the most part, as was demonstrated by her death. If she drowned in a river, this means she was allowed to go outside and play without parental supervision, which is about as free as you can get.
Lina Silva
I believe that part of Ophelia's madness has been caused by the actual way in which life has treated her. Her dad's attitude, her problem's with Hamlet, her dad's death, the fact that her brother went to live to France, etc....In addition to this, as I commented in class, I believe that the actual treatment for insane people can drive you even crazier than what you already are. For example, if a sane person goes into a mental institution hewill probabbly end up with sserious problems to his personality and chatacter. This I believe has affected Ophelia too. For me personally, the best way to solve problems or feel better is talking to other people, however life has isolated Ophelia in every possible aspect and this is what has driven her over the top....
ReplyDeleteFor that time, it was the best treatment. They could've done worse such as making her into a nun, memorize the bible, start a dream journal, somehow prove her love towards God and show that she isn't posessed by donatin to the church...
ReplyDeleteWhen someone goes insane, it is better to be alone. plus as Lina said, she drowned in the river...she was allowed to go out and play with the little bunnies.
Sun Young
Ophelia's treatment was, at the time, the best they could do I think, its the best they could do when someone went crazy. However I think that what would've worked out for her better was to have someone talk to her, someone she could talk straight to and say exactly how she felt without having to worry about etiquette. I think that by isolating her, they just gave her time to think about everything that happened, and that drove her insane because she, being so mentally fragile-always protected and told what to do without a strong personality, wasn't strong enough to cope. If she were alive today and everything had happened now, she wouldve been sent straight to a psychologist, maybe even a psychiatrists, but I doubt she would have been isolated.
ReplyDeleteMaria Astrid Quirarte
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAs Mr gerber said, im so glad that i live in this century. they're treating her like an animal!!!! no one is even trying to help her, not really. All they did was throw her into a room with padded walls and hold her hands so she wouldnt hurt herself. Why would they clean her the way they did!!!! that's no way to make anyone take a shower! i wouldnt even bathe my dog the way the bathed ophelia. They probably just think she's a lost cause. It's exactly because of that, that she ended up dying. If anyone, anyone had taken her seriously and had talked to her before she lost it, the story would have been different.
ReplyDeletePilar Arechiga
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think the way Ophelia is treated is completely unacceptable; instead of trying to help her, they are only making her mental health even more unstable. By treating her like an inferior human, ignoring everything she says, and on top of that, actually hurting her physically, they are only making her condition worse. The confusement and anger she was feeling before could have been managed, but because of the way she was treated, her feelings turned into real madness.
ReplyDeleteI´m definitely glad that nowadays it is expected for everyone to go through "rough patches". So other people are willing to listen to you and help you get through it.
Opheelia´s treatment was necessary. She had to be treated somehow. Being isolation was maybe not the smartest way to do it but people wanted to help her, people -like Astrid said- did what was common in their century, like it is common for us to treat patients with medicines, in the future, maybe they will realized it was the worse thing to do because the medicines were only temporarily, but we still don't know. So the treatment was supposed to be the "best of best" we are talking about the ROYAL family.
ReplyDeleteKARLA(:
Altthough i agree that Ophelia's treatment was unecessary, it is partially apropiate because of the time in which the play is taking place. The seclusion and putting her in the straight jacket seems reasonable, becasue people did not know how to respond. However, the characters, and especialliy Gertude and the King could have treated her differently, and not so much as if she was redarted. The tone in which they spoke to Ophelia, could have made her even more mad....which in the end led to her death.
ReplyDeletenicole
I agree with nicole that ophelias treatment was unnecesary I also think that because of the way Ophelias life has been, it is too late for any type of treatment. She lost her mother, her father now and she was her fathers popet, so I think there is not much that can be done to help her. She had suffered enough so probably her death/ suicide was the best option.
ReplyDeleteMacarena
The last thing Ophelia needs is to be treated like an animal. I think she needs someone to talk to, someone that tries to reason with her, and that is there to support her. The scene with the cold water is done with a lot of disrespect and agression. Although cold water might be a good relaxation treatment, she could get baths in iced water instead. She is seen as an abnormal human, and by isolating her, she is being misunderstood.
ReplyDeleteGiselle
Ophelia is treated like a leper. They want to seal her up so that she can't spread her madness around the palace. This only makes things worse. It's really unnecessary and unhealthy for them to do that to her. They aren't even attempting to help her with her problem, they just seal her off in a secluded padded room Will
ReplyDeleteOphelia's treatment is terrible! Ofcourse, that was what was thought was the best at that time: to isolate someone with issues. However today we know that that is the worst thing you can do. They will just get crazier and crazier. They dont even try to helo her or speak congruently to her. They need to trat her like a normal person in order for her to get better.
ReplyDeleteMaria Jose Fernandez
I t
ReplyDeleteSorry, that last comment was me! Excuse the technical failures, my computer seems to have a mind of its own these days.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, honestly, I think the majority of the character's behavior are a bit exagerrated especially Ophelia's. I mean i just dont see the transition between all of this madness of hers. I get that her father died but, going that crazy is so shocking that I didn't even consider it a possibility. Seriously, if any person had an extremely mournful reaction when a loved one died then the majority of us, if not all of us, would be locked up and accused of having "mental issues", just like Ophelia! But, anyway, willing suspension of disbelief right? Hahaha, I truly hope so.
Adding to that, of course I think Ophelia's treatment is completely inhuman but what is most shocking, is how fast her brother gave up on her, how he announced so quickly that her "madness" was permanent. That is just heartbreaking to me.
Carolina Barbosa Haddad
Obviously the treatment given to Ophelia is crazier than she is but again it is a result of the time and place were they lived. I am beggining to think that back in those days people didn't have hearts...just a tought....
ReplyDeleteIf someone would have hugged and talked to Ophelia instead of making her wear a restraining jacket and lock her up I think she would have recovered to be somewhat normal, because no one is ever completely sane. But now thanks to the treatment she is dead.
About the demon thing, that is just plain stupid even back then... i feel sorry for humanity sometimes in cases like this...
Closed.
ReplyDelete-Mr. Paul